Fractured Axel

mobius · Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:07 pm

jad wrote:
The axel problem Roy has is something about which I'd like to know other peoples experiance.

Do others find the axel really hard or impossible? This is perhaps the most surprising and concerning thing I've read because when I think of British kites - gems, area 51, I think of beautiful axels. Its the area I thought would probably most distinguish the Fury from the French kites.

Dave, I don't discount what you say at all. I'd like to get more of your take on the axels and the ease of pulling off tricks.

The axel shouldn't be hard for anyone used to axelling full sized kites.. I think this is probably where Roy is finding the problem of muscle memory of light trick kites that only require a single light axel flick.

My axel technique tends to be a single flick with a pop movement half way to finish off the axel. You don't always need to do this.. walking forward whilst axeling might give you enough floatation that only a single flick is required.

The Fury is a very deep kite. This means that there is a great deal of vertical sail area that causes friction (probably not the right word) during rotational moves such as flat spins and axels. Think of the turning circle of a corricle boat with no keel (say a gemini) compared to a yacht (say a fury). This is why the weight on the outside of the frame is important to help with the rotational momentum. If you having difficulty with rotational spins then more weight needs to be added to the bottom spreaders near the LE fitting. The fury however, axels perfectly well without any weight there, but adding it can only make axels easier, flatter and faster.

Hope this helps

Eddie Green · Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:04 pm

I was taught by Chris Mattheson always to axel with a double movement. it comes as second nature to me. which is probably why I found no problem axeling the fury.

you know one thing I am realising more and more is that although I am not a great flier, flying different kites all the time makes me a versitile flier.

RoyReed · Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:15 pm

mobius wrote:
The axel shouldn't be hard for anyone used to axelling full sized kites.. I think this is probably where Roy is finding the problem of muscle memory of light trick kites that only require a single light axel flick.

I'm perfectly used to axeling a full size kite. I have three Phantoms. I'm quite prepared to admit that it still might be my technique that I haven't yet learnt to adapt to the Fury (I mentioned earlier that I had similar problems with a Nirvana). I didn't have any problems with any other rotational moves except the axel, so I don't think it's a weight distribution problem. I'll have a word with Carl at Streatham next weekend and see if he can sort me out.

SteveR · Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:03 am

The phantom needs mnore than just a flick to spin it on its belly. Its the hardest kite i have to axel, way more so than the vana.

gemini double axels dont need any second pop, its all about arm position again, down to your side will spin it twic easily, maybe even three times.

jad · Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:47 pm

Just got another bad review on the Fury. Can't go into it as it was in e-mail but he said Craig's "dissapointed" fit. Probably can be seen on GWTW soon as they are back up (unreachable now) . Very similar complaints re hard or not possible to trick as wanted and yo-yo line hang ups.

So far I haven't seen anything from anyone who stuffed the frame and added 10 gramweights on the l/s as has been suggested.

Reports have the kite needing a lot of wind. Stuffed and weighted it sounds like a high wind kite that will need around 10mph to fly well.

It was not promoted as a high wind kite.

The disparity between the CR related people and the common lot is very evident and large.

Clearly Roy Reed being unused to other than gems and phantoms is not the answer.

CR responded quickly, clearly, and nicely to some e-mailed quesions I sent. However, in light of the experiances I've read, something is out of whack.

I'm hoping CR or related flyers can clarify this in a way that results in happy owners.

Individual styles, skill level, what flyers are used to, are not answers that will resolve this.

This weekend was supposed to bring, I believe, more experiance and Roy Reed actually talking in person to Carl.

Who's side am I on? The maker and the flyers. I'd like all to be satisfied.

Right now I'm confused.

Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:46 am

Well my personal experience with the Fury hasn't changed as I've not had a proper chance to try with weighted lower spreaders, but I was at Streatham today and certainly Carl and the other KS fliers weren't having much trouble in very variable wind (3-20 at a guess) and also doing most of the tricks in the book, so.......................................

Chris Goff · Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:33 am

I just got my fury yesterday at Streatham and love it. Going back to Roy's Fury Snag, yes I have had a yo-yo line snag :banging:

, I managed to pick up a line snag once or twice and found way to get out of it;

1. If you gentley pull both lines towards you and imediatley give the kite slack it untangles almost imediatley. :rockout2:

See ya later, I'm at school....French next

Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:29 pm

Chris Goff wrote:
See ya later, I'm at school....French next

Yeah don't worry, one day you'll be good enough for an R-Sky :lol:

Guest · Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:58 pm

Hi there,

Just a quck question re the Fury - does anybody know how the Flexifoil version of the Fury is going to compare with the Carl Robertshaw version? Cheaper - yes, heavier - yes, reduced wind range - maybe..., etc

I made the decision to order one, and now (after reading comments here and on GWTW) I not sure this was a good idea. It seems the jury is split on the 'real' Fury, so the 'cheap' Fury is unlikely to be as good? Or is it? If someone cares to reassure me that would be nice......

Jan

kitejan · Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:00 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Hi there, Just a quck question re the Fury....

Just to let you know that was me... forgetting to actually login to these forums. Doh!

Jan

Guest · Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:08 am

Dont know if you have seen this, might answer some of your points http://www.flexifoil.com/news/newsitem. ... _id=101938

D.

Eddie Green · Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:52 am

Jim B's comments on GWTW interest me greatly. In general I like the Fury, and I can't deny what my eyes what the CR fliers can do with it.

I am however getting more and more cautious about saying to people that they would love it. Flew the STX 1.9 at Streatham and it didn't make me smile. yet some people seem to love it.

Hmmm

kitejan · Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:23 am

Anonymous wrote:
Dont know if you have seen this, might answer some of your points....

Yes I had read this and was quite excited, but then having been reading comments here and, well lets say I began to get worried. I wondered if I should have saved the money for a 'better' all round kite.

Well I will see what happens - I guess I was after a precise dual line kite so I think the Flexi Fury will do that, but I was also hoping something fairly trickable at the same time. My trick flying abilities as minimal to say the least!

Jan

jad · Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:01 pm

Well I feel like I've settled the Fury controversy for myself at least.

Think it comes down to CR and others writting honestly from their prospective and some of us honestly reading into it something different from ours.

Sorry if I ever sounded harsh on this. Didn't intend to.

I appreciate the people who didn't connect with the kite saying so. A forum without disagreement is just an advertisement. It took the views from people familiar with the kites style and those just meeting it to give me a clear picture I could use.

JimB on GWTW is doing a great ongoing report on his experiances with the Fury. No final impression but he seems to be getting his money's worth having fun with learning about it.

Wish CR and the other Fury flyers the best. Look forward to reading of some competition butt kicking on behalf of the English speaking world. Nothing against the French but variety is nice.

aphelps · Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:17 am

Do others find the axel really hard or impossible? This is perhaps the most surprising and concerning thing I've read because when I think of British kites - gems, area 51, I think of beautiful axels. Its the area I thought would probably most distinguish the Fury from the French kites.

I found Roy's commentary on the Axel problem intriguing. These days I tend to think of an axel as 180-270 degree action. I dont often try the "360 degree" axel that Roy is describing. Having read it the way that Roy has written it, I would wonder if the Nirvana or other kites could achieve it either (pls no offence Roy). I'll have to try that one. For my own 10p, I think that the Fury half-Axels as well any other trick capable kite. It is a fairly stock move these days, and I would be worried if any trick kite didn't do it well.

On the subject of the yoyo line snag, I have encountered this problem too. In my case, I simply moved the yoyo-line knots on the bridle down as far as they could go. The problem has not occurred since.

Cheers

The Fury - the debate goes on