Fractured Axel

SteveR · Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:43 pm

Hi there, as a relative newcomer to "proper" kite flying it is refreshing to see a site that does not dismiss anyone who cant axel to fade to flick flack backspin to cascade etc etc. I got into kiting years ago on the beach on holidays and this year in france learnt how to fly controlled shapes in the sky. Thinking I was cool, i did a bit of research..... big mistake!! One Gem, one Dot matrix, one phantom and one Nirvana later I am now on the Dodd Gross path to tricky nirvana (sorry!). The best thing about kites is learning to do the axel as everyone says its the first trick to learn, and still the best to watch, but even better is discovering a kite that you get on with. I got the gem first and yes i know its easy to axel but for me the Dot was amazing! First attempt and there was a pancake. third attempt there was a pancake to fade.... same afternoon i did 4 flick flacks. After a week or so i managed to wrap it into a yo-yo (crashed of course afterwards ha ha), but that blooody axel stilll dont always come off. As for the lazy susan, well i can even get the phantom to get its nose towards me but then it stop rotating and falls gently to earth.....by the way has anyone else broken the left hand lower wing spar of the Gem..twice??
Its great to read others with the same enthusiasm without some of thr usual patronising Oh your a newbie comments...

Martin · Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:06 am

Hi

Glad u like our corner of the interweb... F.A. is about promoting the sport... we WANT newbies to start (they make us look good

)but seriously we do the abusing in the name of humor and usually (but not exclusivly) amongst ourselves. we welcome the all whatever the level of skill all we insist on is bags of enthusiasm

The lower leading edge breakage does seem to be a common one on the gemini

Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:03 am

Welcome to the forum Steve, glad to have you on board.

I found I broke a LOT of LLE spars on my Gemini until I got a feel for how it felt with the tipwrap... Getting frustrated and yanking hard on the lines trying to take off when the Gem is tipwrapped like that and you'll soon be shelling out for a new spar.

Simplest tip I can give is think twice before giving that hard take-off pull... make sure your hands are even (ie both lines are coming straight from the bridle towpoints), make sure that the kite responds to simple inputs while on the ground - can you rock it up and down? Can you see the bridle fully extended on both sides?

If you're breaking it in other ways (tip stabbing?) maybe you can reinforce the spar with some carbon for 6 inches or so until you find you stop doing it?

SteveR · Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:57 pm

Thanks for the tip Andy, although I have since found that being gentle as you describe has avoided this, though everfy time I try the tip stand that leading edge flexes scarily...
Any tips on the lazy susan: I can get both the gem and the Dot around 180 degrees so the nose is pointuing towards me but then it runs out of momentum even if i give so much slack on the non pop hand that the kite becomes completely unrecoverable. I have read on Prism's site that trick lines are a no no for this trick, but my experience with the Dot without a trick line is one of continous spinning tip line wraps...maybe there's name for that move too! As a relative beginner for me the axel, the lazy susan and the flic flac are all "milestone" tricks I need to master! Help!

Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:09 pm

SteveR wrote:
I have read on Prism's site that trick lines are a no no for this trick, but my experience with the Dot without a trick line is one of continous spinning tip line wraps...

The Prism sites half right ! I always fly my Dot with no trick line, it just works so much better, but why not go half way and make a W type trick line similar to the one on the Gem, make the lines from just one of the stand-offs on each side about 3 inchs I'd guess, hopefully this will help with the lazy-susans on the Dot for you. Also think about changing the the trickline on the Gem make the extensions from the stand-offs shorter, but this will mean that you have to make the whole trick line longer, bridle lines cheap so its worth it.

SteveR · Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:09 pm

Thanks for the tip Andy, although I have since found that being gentle as you describe has avoided this, though everfy time I try the tip stand that leading edge flexes scarily...
Any tips on the lazy susan: I can get both the gem and the Dot around 180 degrees so the nose is pointuing towards me but then it runs out of momentum even if i give so much slack on the non pop hand that the kite becomes completely unrecoverable. I have read on Prism's site that trick lines are a no no for this trick, but my experience with the Dot without a trick line is one of continous spinning tip line wraps...maybe there's name for that move too! As a relative beginner for me the axel, the lazy susan and the flic flac are all "milestone" tricks I need to master! Help!

Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:08 pm

The only kite I can reliably lazy-susan is my Nirvana, which again, has no trickline.

The modded, deeper W trickline on the Gem is 252cm long with the lines from the standoffs to the trickline reduced to 7cm. It sits a lot happier in a turtle with this deep trickline.

Your other alternative is to remove the trickline and practice harder at avoiding tip-wraps...

Hard advice, but I think it will make a better trickflier. Obviously I wouldn't remove the Gem's trickline, but maybe on the Dot you could try it for a while?

jrharrold · Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:16 pm

Apart from the Gem (which I rarely fly) I've taken all the trick lines off my kites. Haven't regreted it at all.

Davey · Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:26 pm

h_i_r_0 wrote:
The modded, deeper W trickline on the Gem is 252cm long with the lines from the standoffs to the trickline reduced to 7cm. It sits a lot happier in a turtle with this deep trickline.

Another (easier) mod I've seen has been to move the standoffs with the tending lines for the trick line into the inner position. This is meant to help the Gem sit a little deeper in the turtle - without having to make eny permanent adjustments (the knots slide along the trick line nicely keeping the tending lines vertical)

jimothy · Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:54 pm

Hi and welcome from one newbie to another.

Regarding the LS on a gemini, it sounds like the same problem I had when I learnt it (just doing 180) and i can tell you it's simply a matter of giving more slack! With the kite in the turtle position, give a gentl(ish) tug and then run forwards so the flying lines are draped over the trick line (no need to remove it).

Make sure you start pretty high up in the window, cos the rotation tends to be quite slow, and the kite will fall a long way, but don't panic - it will come round and then it recovers easily!

Note; (obvious really) the speed of the rotation depends on the force of your tug AS LONG as you don't tug too hard and make the kite recover by accident! It's all about tugging quickly, then giving lots of slack back to the kite, and the speed at which you go from one movement to the other.

As for axels, the key is making sure the kite is stalled ( use the edge of the window if all else fails) then let one wing drift back (about half a foot if you can) before a short (hardish) pop, then lots of slack (again).

hope this helps.

Jim the longwinded

SteveR · Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:09 pm

Jimothy thanks for the help. Being an impatient so and so my biggest problem isnt actually axeling the kite, its getting it to stall sweetly using a snap stall. I just havent practised this basic move enough cos Im too damn impatient, plus it hasnt come naturally unlike turtles, pancakes and fades. My ideal kite would be a bigger slower version of the Dot Matrix (dont tell me its called the Matrix). I find i can do twice as many things with the Dot than any other kite ive ever flown which is what its all about. I can almost cascade the Dot, whereas the Gemini just falls out of the sky laughing at me......
Am considering a nirvana based upon what ive heard about it: tricks like a gem but precise as a phantom....anyone got one and tell me what its like??

Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:24 pm

It doesn't trick like a Gem, I'll tell you that much. The pitch tricks (yo-yo, lazy susan etc.) are much easier than the Gem, it sits as stable in the turtle as it does the fade. What it doesn't do so easily are the spin tricks, I've had no end of trouble with backspins that I'm only just sorting out and I've still not 540ed it. It does axel nicely with no weight on it, but that starts to get a bit ugly as you add some weight (well it does in my hands anyway).

Half Axels are a dream and the cascade's come easily to me with this kite,and I've carried that move back over onto the Gem with ease now. Once I've tidied it up a bit I want to start work on the Comete. Pitch combos like the Jacobs Ladder are nice n easy, even for a ham fisted hack like me.

The precision stuff is nice - tracks and turns really well, although I'm no precision flyer even I can tell that...

The noise is a bit of a taste thing though... it is a bit of a roarer in a bit of wind... you can kill the noise easily enough with practice though, and it becomes more of a contented purr, but if you like your flying to be silent, then this prolly isn't the kite for you.

Martin · Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:38 pm

the nirvana tricks NOTHING like a gemini dude, if u want a kite that tricks like a gemini then buy a gemini...

Seriously though the Nirvana is not a jot like the gemini, it is slow, tugs more, is harder to spin (axel, 540 etc) and when it does them they are no where near as pretty or flat as the gemini and its harder to backspin

The real strength of the nirvana is pitch based tricks and combos, things like the jacobs ladder, the mutex, flick flacks and flap jacks., the nirvana like many french kites sits very nose deep in a turtle, this makes lazy susans and lasy susan based combos alot easier to master.

What i am trying to get across is that the Nirvana isnt better than the Gemini, it is different, they both excell at better things, the gemini has its quirks but ask any flyer who owns and nearly all of them will tell you that the gemini did alot for their flying.

It aint a new kite u need dude it i more practice!

if you really want that french flavour then take a look at the cavelier du ciels STX series, i think they are a little nore user friendly than the nirvana.

Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:39 pm

Hi Martin... You should fly the N. without the 15g in the tail, it does do a lovely axel...
You also need to watch the video on the CD and not base your observations of the Nirvana on my flying

SteveR · Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:43 pm

Martin, I get on better with a Dot Matrix than the gemini, i just think me and the gem are doomed lovers... sounds like your description of the Nirv is similiar to my expereinec of the DM (and thats only been a month or so)

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